agThe Baseball Fan Experience – Little Known Facts About The Game
This is an exclusive interview I did with baseball fanatic and published author Zack Hample. He’s written three books on the game. Go to ZackHample.com to find little known facts about America’s favorite past time.
You can check out his books on Amazon.
The Baseball: Stunts, Scandals, and Secrets Beneath the Stitches
How to Snag Major League Baseballs: More Than 100 Tested Tips That Really Work
Zack agreed to do a brief interview for the site. You can download the MP3 file and the PDF transcript at the end of this post. This is a great interview and I learned a lot.
Matt: Honestly it’s just getting content out there and just talking baseball and promoting,
you know talking about the game and part of the psyche, the audience is just educating them about baseball. It’s more than just flipping on the TV and watching the game. I mean that’s one of the things that caught my attention especially with your books, actually I see that you’ve put out a bunch of them, you’ve got quite the untold celebrity status almost.
Zack: Yeah I kind of feel like it sometimes, no one recognizes me when I walk down the street but when I walk into a major league baseball stadium, I always get recognized so that’s kind of cool.
Matt: Yeah, hey well just out of curiosity how did you—did you always just grow up liking baseball?
Zack: Yeah, you know it really wasn’t even my first favorite sport, I liked soccer and I liked tennis.
Matt: Really?
Zack: Yeah and I didn’t even know that there was such a thing as major league baseball. I played Wiffle Ball and I kind of knew that baseball existed but I didn’t really understand what it meant to be a fan and follow a team and it was so empty there was major league baseball. And once I realized that and found out about baseball cards and just going to games and stuff I was already about five years old and it just really took off from there.
Matt: Awesome, so what was your first baseball game you ended up going to?
Zack: I was six years old and that was way back in 1984 and my dad took me to that day Yankee Stadium. They actually gave bats away at that place which is hard to imagine now when they won’t even give you like a plastic knife at the concession stand because that might be used as a weapon, but they actually gave full sized baseball bats to fans. And my dad hated the Yankees and
I’ve never liked the Yankees but it was so awesome just being in that stadium that I didn’t care who we were going to see I just was so thrilled, so I’ll never forget that.
Matt: Great that’s awesome. Are you a Mets fan?
Zack: I was growing up. I don’t have a favorite team at this point I really just root for individual players and I will officially be rooting for the Marlins in 2012 probably for the next three years because they signed Heath Bell who I’ve become friendly with over the years. So I kind of root for whatever team he’s on.
So it was probably hard for the Padres the last few years but no I don’t really have a favorite team and if Tim Lincecum faces the Marlins I’ll probably route for the Giants that game just because I love him. So I mean that’s just sort of how I root for baseball, it’s just all about the player and the specific situation in the moment and I think it’s more fun that way actually.
Matt: Right on. Kind of tell me about your book, I mean the one that did catch my attention was Watching Baseball Smarter just basically educating people how you can actually enjoy the game and it’s more than just somebody, oh it’s a team of nine players trying to tag one guy out with the ball on a wooden stick because I mean that’s the way a lot of people portray baseball like it’s slow but it’s more than just that.
Zack: Absolutely yes, I think baseball is one of those things where if you just take a quick glance at it or if you didn’t really grow up watching it and understanding it, it can appear to be slow and boring. I mean there are so many things in life that if you dig below the surface there’s actually a whole world of exciting details and nuances and I think that’s especially true with baseball. It is a
very complex and beautiful game and there’s just been so much history and controversies and funny things that happened.
And I just wanted to write a book that kind of helped bridge the gap for people out there that don’t know anything about baseball and just try to help them understand why it’s such an amazing sport. So that was pretty much my goal and I wanted to also make if fun. I hated school growing up, I hated reading, my dad was a writer and my mum owns a bookstore and of course I hated writing or reading anything. And so everything that I’ve written I try to write in a conversational style and I just try to make it engaging.
And with Watching Baseball Smarter I went out of my way to make sure that people would have a few laughs in the process of getting a lesson about baseball. So that’s just sort of my philosophy in life; be fun, don’t be boring and make people enjoy themselves.
Matt: Right on. So what would you say are some of your key takeaways? I used to be a fair-weather fan now I might certainly get into the game because I’m understanding it a little better, what are maybe some key messages you’re really trying to illustrate specifically for somebody that’s really making an effort of, you know I want to actually enjoy this game?
Zack: I think one thing that’s just fascinating that I didn’t even know until I was probably a teenager and I was obsessed with this sport as a little kid is that every single pitch, the pitcher is not just trying to throw it into the strike zone but he’s trying to throw it to a specific spot within the strike zone. And you can tell where exactly he’s trying to throw it by watching the catcher and
watching where the catcher holds his glove up for a target.
And it’s not just that the pitcher is trying to throw it to that spot but he’s also throwing it with a specific speed to throw off the batter’s timing and he’s throwing it off with a specific spin to make the ball move one way or the other to curve or to dart towards one side of home plate to the other to drop a little bit.
So there are different grips on the ball and I mean die hard fans might know this stuff but I think a lot of people miss this. And there’s just this whole set of communication that takes place between the pitcher and the catcher. Basically the catcher has to know what pitch the pitcher is going to throw because obviously it’s really hard to hit a pitch traveling that fast but it’s also hard to catch it.
So you can’t have the catcher just missing every pitch that goes by and if you’re the batter and you fail and you miss, okay it’s no big deal you have a few more chances but if you’re the catcher you have to catch it. So you have to know what’s coming but you can’t call out to the pitcher, okay hey throw a fast ball and throw it here because obviously the batter is going to know so there’s just this secret way that they communicate where the catcher flashes signs, and he has to hide it from the other team and those signs change when there’s a runner on base who can look in and see the signs and relay them to the batter.
And it’s just a huge cat and mouse game which takes place between every single pitch and that’s why it takes ten or twenty seconds or thirty seconds between pitches.
I think a lot of casual fans get bored because of what appears to be a delay in between pitches. But if you really know what’s going on I think you can get into it and try to follow along with the strategy. So that’s probably the main thing that is like the umbrella over the whole sport is just the nuts and bolts of the game, balls and strikes, pitches, pitching, catching so that’s probably the first thing that I’d tell people.
Matt: Awesome. So one of the things too that I liked about your book is, you give some historical reference to it. I mean how far back have you gone in researching baseball and kind of what got started and its root? I mean do you focus more kind of like present day stuff or you cover the whole gambit.
Zack: I’d say I really cover everything. I did way more research on my newer book which is called The Baseball than on Watching Baseball Smarter. But there are sections where I talk about early statistics and leagues and how the rules changed going way back to the 1860’s. I mean there were just crazy rules in the 19th Century where if the fielding team caught a batted ball and one
bounce it was considered an out or if a base runner made a daring move such as going from first to third on a single he was awarded stolen base.
There were all kinds of crazy stuff and I had to dig way back into early versions of the rule book to find these things because that affected statistics. And of course you can’t really be a baseball fan and not love numbers, I mean I guess you can but most baseball fans love numbers and love stats.
It’s part of the charm of the game in a way and baseball fans love to compare players from different years and different generations.
And you can pretty much do that a lot of times, the steroids have thrown things off and the ball packs are small now and five man pitching rotations versus four. But there are certain stats that has held strong. It’s always going to be impressive to bat 300 for example but then you have these crazy rules from 150 years ago that really skewed the way statistics were kept. And you have
to keep that in mind I guess if you’re trying to judge players so in that sense it was important for my research to go way back.
Matt: That’s awesome, hey just out of curiosity you said that baseball stadiums by and large are smaller than what they used to be. Do you have an example that maybe a lot of people can relate to? I mean you go back to the 1860’s and 1870’s what was a baseball field dimension compared to now?
Zack: Well all ball parks were just bizarre in their dimensions; you’d have places like the polo grounds that were like 200 I mean way less than 300 feet down the line. I mean a routine fly ball could easily be a home run but then it was close to 480 feet to dead center field. So the ball parks were not uniform at all.
Even the old Yankee Stadium at one point was 500 feet to dead centerfield and for a long, long time it was closer to 500 feet than 400 feet. Nowadays, pretty much 400 feet is the norm for center field and 325ft down the line is supposed to be the minimum for any ball part built after 1958.
But there are exceptions, AT&T Park in San Francisco for example they had to cram that onto a small piece of land so that it’s a little over 300 ft down the right feet line but they made up for it by building a really tall wall which is 24ft high which is in honor of Reilly Maze who played for the
organization who wore number 24.
So there’s all this there’s still a lot of quirks with new ball parks just like there were with old ones. But overall the dimensions have shrunk considerably and the baseball itself has gotten so much better and so much harder over the years that it’s much easier to hit the ball a long, long way now than it was.
Matt: Got you, that makes sense. Do you feel like baseball has gotten more competitive just because the talent has gotten better and it’s just grown in popularity or what’s your take on that?
Zack: I think money is a huge motivating factor, also the draw of fame just because TV is so big now and you really are a celebrity if you’re a baseball player. Also nutrition has gotten better I mean you hear stories of oh well how come guys back in the day could throw 300 innings and today guys can only throw 200. But I think that that has to do with I don’t think that players, pitchers were throwing 100% effort on 100% of the pitches back in the day like guys do now. I think you’d burn yourself out quicker but I think it’s just a competitive world.
I mean even in business, it’s just everything is competitive and everything is driven by money and people start playing so early in life now. And I think another huge factor that cannot be ignored is the fact that major league baseball has become an international game.
A few generations ago you couldn’t even have an African American player in the major leagues. So all the superstars that we had, well they were just superstars from a very small talent pool. But now you’re drawing from all races and all countries and it’s truly the best of the best of the best of the best.
Matt: That’s awesome. Hey just out of curiosity, throughout your research that you’re doing when you’re focused on the earlier part of the game as you cover in your book that you recently just released actually you released it about ayear ago right?
Zack: The new one?
Matt: Yeah The Baseball.
Zack: Yeah that came out in March.
Matt: Oh March okay so in that one, throughout your research what were probably one or
two of like the craziest, strangest baseball rules you came across you’re like, what, they actually did that?
Zack: Oh man, well I mean the new book really focused all about the baseball itself. And if you want to talk about rules for the actual ball one thing that just seemed so bizarre I mean there are so many where do I even start, but just how early baseballs were made, there was no uniformity at all. The strange part about the rules is that there were no rules.
People would take any random hard object like a rock or even a bullet or a walnut and that would be the core of the ball and then they’d take old strings like from the fishing line or an unraveled sock and wind it around that thing, cut up some old leather shoes and use those strips to stitch together the cover of the ball.
And even when professional baseball began to take shape beyond that and baseballs became a little bit more uniform there was still no specific rule. And in fact the home team was responsible for providing the baseball. So if you were a manager and your team had a whole bunch of sluggers, well you were going to make a baseball that was really lively, you’d put a lot of rubber in the corn you’d stitch it really tight.
But if you were a manager and your team had a bunch of fast guys who were sleek fielders you’d want a really dead ball so the other guys couldn’t hit it. And just early baseball was insane like this, there was just no governing body.
So that when you go back to the 1850s, 1860s you see all kinds of whacky stuff like this. And one ball had to last for the entire game that was actually in the rule book and eventually the winning team got to keep the baseball because owning a ball was such a big deal that teams would play for ownership of the ball itself and that was part of the rules. It was in the rule book that the winning team got to keep the ball. So and I know I just threw a bunch of examples at you but when you get me talking about baseball, sometimes I’m a little bit long winding.
Matt: Oh that’s okay that’s awesome that’s some really fascinating stuff. You know, hey we want to fast forward to more of the modern era, some between kids and even the fair-weather fans and people that go to a game every now and then. Some of the basic stuff such as the wave, and some teams have mascots and some teams don’t. I mean how does all that baseball fan fair, I mean how
did that kind of evolve, do you have any insight on that?
Zack: Well the wave in particular got started at the Oakland Coliseum in the 70s. I don’t know the exact origin of that but for whatever reason the fans there just kind of pulled together and that was some whacky thing that they came up with. For better or for worse a lot of people love it, a lot of people think it’s the worst thing in sports. And it’s hard to pin down certain things. The tradition
for example of let’s say throwing a visiting team’s home run ball back onto the field that started at Wrigley field when some of the famous so called bleacher bums out there.
This one guy who was well known by a lot of people caught a Hank Aaron home run ball which was valuable at the time and would be really valuable today. But in a display of team pride more that his desire to be a collector he chucked that thing back on the field and people went completely nuts and that was the start of a tradition. So sometimes there are very, very specific routes to all of this and sometimes things just evolved very gradually over time.
Matt: Wow, the Hank Aaron thing that’s pretty interesting. Are there any other like weird
kinds of trivial things? It seems commonplace in baseball that between fans, teams they do every day but it started off because of one event like the Hank Aaron thing for example.
Zack: Oh yeah, one of my favorite examples has to do with the tradition of fans keeping several balls that fly into the crowd. Believe it or not in the early days of baseball fans were not allowed to keep baseballs that went into the crowd because as I mentioned a little while ago one ball had to last through an entire game and if it went to the crowd the game would actually be delayed until the spectators returned it. And if a ball somehow got lost I mean early ball parks didn’t have big grand stands at all so balls would fly completely out of the stadium.
There sometimes weren’t even outside fences so the balls would roll into the forest or into some trees the game would actually stop and the players would have to go looking for the ball. And eventually they made a rule that capped the amount of time at five minutes that the game was allowed to be
delayed and at that point then teams had to have a second baseball in reserve. But fans were not allowed to keep baseballs. And there was one owner named Charles Weeghman who was the owner of the Cubs back in 1916 he realized that it would be good for business to let fans keep balls.
He figured that the money that he lost on the baseball themselves he’d earn it back by drawing extra fans who might be excited at the opportunity to catch a souvenir and take it home. And beyond that decision on his part, there was an incident a few years later in New York where a fan named Reuben Berman refused to return the ball because Charles Weeghman let his fans keep baseballs but other owners decided not to.
So I there was an incident in New York basically where a guy caught a ball when stadium security confronted him he chucked it back deeper into the crowd.
And he was arrested and kicked out of the stadium and he got a lawyer and the lawyer sued for mental anguish and all that stuff and the guy actually won some money back in 1920 or 1921. So that was another big incident that kind of changed the course of what today is considered to be the
ultimate American experience when you go to a game and you catch a foul ball you take it for granted but there are fans getting roughed up by stadium security and being kicked out of games and it’s just nuts to see how different the sport has become over the years.
Matt: Wow, that’s pretty wild. Hey just out of curiosity how many foul balls have you caught in a lifetime are you keeping count or have you lost track?
Zack: Well I can give you some numbers. My grand total baseballs including batting practice and everything is 5,819.
Matt: Wow.
Zack: Yeah and just this past season in 2011 I set a record I went to 131 games, and I snagged 1157 baseballs. But if you want to just talk about balls during games that number is up to 165 lifetime and it breaks down to 148 foul balls 16 home runs and one ground roll double.
Matt: I’m sure you probably got one—
Zack: My girlfriend is here and she’s shaking her head at me thinking I’m the as weird as
ever but you know, some people just don’t get it.
Matt: But you’re a guy who’s had three books so that’s worth it. Well not everybody can say they have 5000 baseballs. So do you have them all just planning to make a wall on your home, I mean how do you even display something like that?
Zack: Well I’ve given away a lot of baseballs to kids over the years so I don’t own 5800 baseballs but I still have most of them. I have them in I have these big recycling barrels or these plastic barrels that hold 32 gallons which turns out to be just about 400 baseballs on the dot. So I have eight of those full so that’s 3200 balls. And then I have a duffel bag filled with balls and some plastic bags and they take up quite a bit of space. They’re mostly at my mum’s place in my old childhood bedroom and she wants them the hell out.
So I guess since space is running out I guess that means the more I catch at this point the more I have to give away but that’s fun. That kind of adds to the fun, catching baseballs and then picking out some little kids that have gloves who I can tell they’re trying hard to catch a ball on their own but just falling a bit short for whatever reason. It’s just fun to walk over and hand them a ball and see their face light up. So it’s all just part of the experience for me
Matt: That’s awesome, and plus too every ball you have literally has a story behind it it’s
not just oh it’s a ball.
Zack: Well that’s true. There are historic home runs that I’ve caught during games which have so much bigger stories and then there are just some little top ups during batting practice from no name September call ups which don’t have as much of a story. But they’re all special to me and I document my collection really well. I write about every ball on my blog and I keep a list on my computer that my girlfriend likes to make fun of me for.
It’s important to me to document things in general not just baseball but in life it’s just how I remember things and it makes things easy and more meaningful to. Sometimes I photograph my food if I’ve made a really special meal and I watch the photos of all my friends and places that I’ve
been and the same is true with baseball I just really like to keep track and keep lists and photos and take pictures at games and blog about it and share this experience with people.
Matt: Right on, hey what is your main blog anyway?
Zack: Well my blog is called The Baseball Collector and I think I am the top hit on Google if you search for that. And it’s primarily about my baseball collection but this time of year I talk about other stuff and I write an awful lot. Just this year alone I wrote I think about 250000 words on my blog. Like during over the course of the 2011 season, so that is the equivalent of like three of four books that I wrote in the six months span. It’s cool I spend a lot of time on the blog. Sometimes–I once wrote a single blog entry about one game that was 7700 words.
Matt: Oh my gosh what game was that?
Zack: I know the word count don’t necessarily mean anything to certain people who aren’t writers but let’s just put it, I mean everybody that’s written an essay or a paper for school. One double spaced page is usually 250 words so four pages is 1000 multiply that by seven and you have—so I basically wrote like a 30 page paper about one game. That was in 2009 at Coffee Stadium and at the time that was my record for the most balls I ever snagged in one day. So I had about 80 or 90 photographs in that blog entry and I just had a lot to say.
Matt: Well how long does something like that end up taking you to write, was it a lot of research broken up over several days?
Zack: No there’s no research because it’s just me telling my own story of being there. I keep notes while I’m at games I just scribble down just a quick little list as I catch balls and how I get them. And then it all comes back to me. I go through my notes and I go through the photos and I just piece the story together but that day including batting practice I snagged 32 baseballs so there was quite a lot to say.
Matt: That’s awesome. I don’t mean to take up the rest of the night sorry it’s almost 11:00 there. So do you have any maybe just like final parting advice or somebody getting into the game or just like – yeah I don’t know about this baseball-thing, I mean.
Zack: Kind of like my girlfriend?
Matt: Yeah, I mean do you got any how do you –it’s almost like you’ve got to develop the right kind of mindset to really enjoy the game and it’s more than just oh it’s some sport.
Zack: Well that’s a good question. And I would think that I can probably make baseball more fun than just about anybody else out there. I mean give me someone who doesn’t really care about baseball and I can’t get anybody to be obsessed with it, necessarily but I can probably get anybody to appreciate it.
And I think the way I go to a game is just very fun and interactive. I get there early and I’m running around the stadium and I’m talking to people nonstop, fans are recognizing me, I’m shouting to the players and getting them to laugh and running around and making athletic catches, jumping over seats and getting high fives from little kids if I give them a baseball.
So it’s just, there’s a lot happening it’s not just you show up sit in the seat and you’re watching some shit for three hours, it’s really interactive, I’m moving all the time. And I don’t know there’s just the athletic challenges of baseball I think are really interesting to see. I’m also really good at sneaking down to the good seats. So when you’re sitting 700 feet from home play in the upper deck and the baseball looks about as big as a grain of sand it’s not easy to get into the sport that way.
But if you sneak down and you’re sitting in the third row behind the dugout and you can see the players’ facial expressions and hear them curse when they strike out or hit a foul ball on a pitch that they should have hit for a long drive I think it’s easier for the game to be a little bit more personal that way and just flat out all inspiring. I remember the first time that I sat close
to the dugout I could not believe how fast the game moves.
Because I was always used to sitting in the upper deck or far away from the action when I was a kid and occasionally we would have back seats But even then you’re still 200 ft away and if you’re down the foul lines somewhere. The speed at which the pitchers throw the ball is almost cartoon-ish, it doesn’t even make sense.
And the batters they swing the bats so fast you almost can’t see it and the footwork and the glove work and I guess just to see it up that close is amazing. I mean I guess if someone were an expert in ballet and took me to see the ballet and sat me up close I could appreciate it just for the athletic
standpoint and just physically what’s required.
I don’t know there’s just a lot of nuances that I can point out to people and a lot of cool things that you can see up close and I can make it very interactive so it’s not just spectating but it’s almost participatory.
I don’t know, I mean I even started a business that I call Watch With Zack where I take people to games and I guarantee that they’ll get at least one ball or I give them a full refund. And so I guess I’m truly a professional in the sense of taking people to games and helping them understand it and
enjoy it and, I don’t know that’s just kind of I guess what I bring to the table.
Matt: Oh that’s awesome start a business and that’s great, I love that idea.
Zack: Thanks man
Matt: Whatever even made you even think of doing that, just feedback from other people
like oh man, I want to go to a game with you?
Zack: Yeah, so many people have asked me over the years, oh can I go to a game with you, can I go to a game, let’s hang out, let’s go to a game. And I always used to say no and then one day it just kind of occurred to me it was kind of like dumbass say yes, but tell them that they’ve got to pay and I charge a lot for a game. I charge $500 for the first game that someone books with me. And then I’ve had a lot of repeat clients so if someone books a second game or basically any game after the first I charge $300.
So it’s like a little incentive to book a second game and I mean part of the reason why I charge that much is because I’m spending a minimum of six hours of my time, sometimes seven or eight, nine or ten if there’s extra innings or some traveling a long way to the game. And I’m with the person almost the whole time so I have to be on you know for a big chunk of the day and often the have kids and I’m running around and trying to make people happy.
And it’s fun I love it but I also have a normal job where if I only charge $100 a day let’s say or go to a game I’d be losing money because I can earn more than that at my regular job so I kind of need
to charge a lot, but I’m worth damn it, I’m worth it. And I just realized that it was a good business opportunity.
I’m known or having written books and I’ve been on TV probably a lot more than I should have been. I’ve certainly taken heat for starting this business, who the hell does this guy think he is and what kind of idiot would pay $400 to go to a game with him and he’s greedy and this and that.
But hey man this is the world that we live in, if you have a skill and there are people interested in that skill you can put yourself out there.
And there’s certainly been some takers and that’s great and there’s been other people who think I’m a jerk and I just try not to pay too much attention to them. I also raise money for children’s baseball charity by doing this.
Every ball
that I catch raises money for them so I try not to be totally greedy and just in it for me. I try to give back to the baseball world and a lot to kids in the process. So there’s always going to be people out there that don’t get it, there’s always going to be some haters and I just try not to take that personally. I try to focus on the people who appreciate what I do and I’ve just had some amazing experiences over the years because of what I do.
I’ve kind of seen baseball from an angle that a lot of people don’t get to and I’ve met amazing people in the process and I’m just so thankful for that. That this dorky childhood hobby of mine has turned into this big thing and I can share it with so many other people, it’s awesome.
Matt: That’s really awesome. Well hey Zack I just want to say thanks for your time tonight and just I was going to ask just mention your blog one more time, is it the baseball collector or collectors?
Zack: Just one, The Baseball Collector is the name of it. The actual URL is http://zackhample.mlblogs.com/ but if you just do a search for my name Zack Hample and add the word blog it pops right up.
Or you can do a search for baseball collector. I guess I haven’t Googled myself in a while but I know that I was the first one that pops up for a long time just a baseball collector search. I’m the only Zack Hample in the world which is sometimes a problem so I’m pretty easy to Google.
Matt: Man, they make it very hard to locate you. So and then also too if somebody else want to find out more about any of your books for that matter, I mean pretty much just go to Amazon and again just type in your name and up you’re going to pop?
Zack: Exactly, or they can just go to www.zackhample.com that’s just my website. All three books are right there on the Home page, you click on anyone of them you’re going to get some info. I have a pretty simple website, I designed it myself and it’s really not fancy I’m not the computer expert, but I designed a site that has a lot of content but it’s very easy to navigate.
I don’t like it when you go to a website and there’s a little spinning wheel that says please wait 10 seconds while this loads or you see moving graphics and sounds. I just like to go to a website and like bam you sort of know where you’re going to go and that’s my site there’s a ton of content in there.
You could spend solid days reading everything, looking at all the photos, reading all the fan mail reading about the books, various articles about me, my blog entries but it’s a pretty unflashy website. So that’s a good place for people to go if they just want to find out more about me, about the books if they want to read my blog learn how to catch a baseball at a game, it’s all there.
Matt: Awesome. Hey, so do you have any future books coming out or you’re not sure
what yet the next step is going to be that you’re going to take?
Zack: I’m not sure, I’ve been taking a little break from writing this past year by design. The last project was so intense that I just needed to step away from it for a bit. I maybe updating Watching Baseball Smarter this winter and I’m kicking around a few other ideas. It’s a little too soon to talk about them but I’m pretty sure I’ll be writing more books down the road and I may start one
pretty soon but yeah it’s a sort of zooming through and seeing exactly which path I’m going to take.
Matt: Cool Awesome. Well Zack you’ve answered a ton of questions and gave a lot of great insight tonight. So I appreciate all your time on this, yeah.
Zack: My pleasure and when this thing is up on your site send me the link and I’ll tweet it
and get some more people looking at it and I really appreciate your time.
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